'They were like, "They’ll get over it"'

Last week I sat down with Senator Fatima Payman for a half-hour chat over Microsoft Teams, the worst software in the world.

I first got in touch with Payman’s office in November after seeing how she responded to Jason Clare’s round of media appearances in which he suddenly started talking about a ceasefire.

Originally I wanted to ask some general questions about Labor, the genocide and the upcoming federal election. By coincidence, though, the interview ended up happening on January 16, a few hours after the ceasefire was announced.

“Look, it’s definitely heartening, definitely welcome. But the fact that it’s only for six weeks, it’s … y’know,” Payman said. “We’re not going to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, but it’s just insufficient when it comes to addressing the scale of the genocide that we’ve been seeing, frankly. Why [did the ceasefire start on] Sunday? Why not sooner? Why only six weeks instead of being permanent? Hasn’t there been enough bloodshed? Hasn’t there been enough heartache and devastation and destruction?”

Earlier that morning Anthony Albanese and Penny Wong released a joint statement “welcoming” the ceasefire they did nothing to bring about, falsely claiming that “Australia has consistently been part of the international call for a ceasefire” and thanking the United States for “their tireless efforts to bring parties to an agreement”.

At a press conference that day, Albanese said he hoped the ceasefire “will allow the Palestinian people the opportunity to rebuild [and] reform their governance, which is most necessary,” and reiterated that “there must be no role for Hamas in the future governance of Gaza”.

“It was very interesting hearing the prime minister’s comments and the way he responded to questions at his press conference,” Payman said. “It’s funny that only now is the government changing their language — that only now the word ‘condemn’ is appearing. I think they’re really scrambling to backtrack on their initial stance since October 2023. Still no sign of the g-word or any tangible actions, though.

“Obviously there’s an election around the corner; they’ve seen what’s happened in the UK and the US and now it’s really hitting home. The fact that Palestinian recognition is still not on the cards, the fact that there are no sanctions on Israel … I don’t think any number of statements is going to make people trust them when it comes to human rights and upholding their international humanitarian obligations.”

“This is the same Anthony Albanese who held a megaphone and chanted ‘Free, free Palestine’; who gave multiple speeches in Parliament on recognition, on the fact that the occupation is a genocide being carried out by an apartheid state,” Payman said. “You do so much advocacy, and you get to the top where you can actually make real change, and you lack the courage. You’re too scared. It just blows my mind. That’s not what I signed up to when I joined the Labor Party and started campaigning back in 2019.”

Payman compared the government’s response last week to the death of Oscar Jenkins, an Australian reportedly killed by Russian soldiers while fighting with Ukrainian forces, with that of Zomi Frankcom, the Australian aid worker killed in April alongside six others after the IDF bombed their aid convoy.

“Only yesterday the prime minister threatened to kick out the Russian ambassador [over Jenkins’ death], but the same wasn’t implemented when Zomi Frankcom was killed,” she said. “So Zomi’s life didn’t matter because you were dealing with the State of Israel?”

“I told Penny [Wong] back when Zomi Frankcom was killed ‘I’ll be the bad guy, I’ll come out and call on the government to sanction Israel or put a hold on our trade until the investigation into Zomi’s death has concluded’, and I was told ‘no, it’ll just corner the government and make life difficult for us’.”

The government’s newfound support for a ceasefire reminded Payman of her time agitating for Labor to take a stronger stance against Israel while she was still in the party, and the response she received from ministers and others. In particular, she recalled conversations she had — or tried to have — with multicultural affairs minister Tony Burke.

“Without going too much into the specifics of private conversations, there seemed to be this notion that ‘you’ve got to toe the party line, but we understand and empathise with you, we have constituents like you’ — as if only people who look like me should feel the pain of a genocide or have a conscience to realise that what’s happening is wrong and call it out,” Payman said.

“But the sentiment was still very much that caucus is a collective and we need to do everything together. After I left [Labor], Tony said something like ‘now that you’re on the crossbench it would be important for us to have an open channel of communication, so let’s keep talking’. I sent him a few pieces of correspondence when [Sri Lankan Tamil refugee] Mano Yogalingam died by suicide, but I only got very formal replies, nothing personal.”

Payman saw first-hand how Labor MPs responded to news of people’s growing anger and frustration with the government’s inaction over the genocide. She believes that, six months after she quit the party, the message still hasn’t sunk in.

“It’s an echo chamber,” she said. “Coming into government after nine years of opposition, all they’re focused on is holding onto power. They’ve moved to the centre-right, trying to placate the Coalition and the right-wing media and the corporate giants and lobby groups instead of actually listening to the people who got them elected. They’re very intelligent people, but I think they underestimated the power of everyday Australians coming together for justice.”

“When I was still in Labor, I was literally making fundraising calls to massive donors and asking them for support. These same donors who had supported me before October 2023 were like, ‘Labor hasn’t lifted a finger in terms of calling for justice and an end to the genocide. Why should we donate money? We support you as someone who’s being vocal, but we can’t see ourselves donating to Labor’. These are well-known, affluent members of the community! And when I fed this information back to the caucus, they were like, ‘They’ll get over it. They’ll forgive and forget’.”

With an election likely due in April, Payman is crisscrossing the country attending Palestine rallies and meeting with pro-Palestinian independents like Dr Ziad Basyouny, who is challenging Burke in the seat of Watson.

“It’s going to be an interesting election,” she said. “Ziad’s got such a groundswell of community support in that electorate. I feel like he’s got a real chance. Sometimes you need to have a wake-up call, and I think this is the Labor Party’s wake-up call. People want accountability, they want action, they want progress. That’s why they elect Labor governments — to see real action taken. And they haven’t seen it, either federally or at a state level.”

“It’s not just Palestine. It’s the hypocrisy that people are seeing right through. And people are demanding more.”

Fundraiser for Noor and Hoor Hammad

Yesterday was Hoor’s first birthday.

Please consider giving some money to this fundraiser I’m running for Noor Hammad, a young mum in Gaza, and her baby daughter Hoor. Any money raised will be sent to Noor's brother Abdallah Abdalrahim, who lives in Sweden and can send her money directly.

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What I’m looking at

• Electronic Intifada — Day 1: Gaza ceasefire

• Mondoweiss — What is the first thing you will do after the truce?

• Guardian Australia — Australians should be angry about another year of climate inaction. But don’t let your anger turn into despair